In order to make 10bit work on the decoding stage you have to provide b48r or b64a or r4fl conversion inside codec, as most application will try to get this pixel format from the decoder. v210 is not very well supported.
Although video decoding of 10bit-utvideo in avi seems to work in Virtualdub, it only works if I _force_ Virtualdub to read v210 (video -> color depth -> v210 input -> v210 or something else output).
But in other applications it seems your UTVideo doesn’t report itself as handling v210 output.
For instance, After Effects understands a raw v210-avi file without problems, but it doesn’t understand 10bit UTVideo?
Also, how to encode with the quicktime 10bit codec under Windows? It seems it only supports ’24bit’ or ’32 bit’ depths, while Quicktime’s raw v210 codec is listed as 48 bit.
Adobe Media Encoder now always fails with the 10bit UTVideo quicktime component. The 8 bit 422 works fine.
It seems the 10bit quicktime component is not advertised as understanding 48bit depth?
b48r, b64a and r4fl seem to be all RGB formats. Are YUV high bit depth formats not popular (especially in QuickTime) ?
I’d rather not implement RGB-YUV conversion in high bit depth codecs…
Implementing 16bpc RGB codec seems better, but its compression ratio will be quite low.
>> to Joris
VirtualDub have ability to auto-selecting decompression format. This is implemented as querying some decompression formats to decoder. But v210 is not included in these formats. That is the reason why we have to set VirtualDub to read v210 explicitly.
NLE softwares like Premiere Pro or After Effects only query RGB formats (8bit palettized RGB, 16, 24 and 32-bit RGB). UQY2 reports supporting v210 input and output but these formats are not used.
I have tested encoding with UQY2 for QT only with EDIUS Pro.
UQY2 reports *only* supporting v210 in compression and decompression.
>> OBATA さん
手元の VMware に専用に作った Windows 10 Technology Preview (x86/x64) の環境にインストールしてみましたが、インストールできないという症状は発生しませんでした。そちらでインストールできないのは直接的には Windows 10 だからというわけでは無いように思えます。
QT and most apps like RGB, mainly b64a. Most of the support is done over b64a, some apps also work with r4fl.
r4fl is a 32bit float YUV 4:4:4:4.
16bit RGB loassless codec would be also great!
v210 is a specific case as this is uncompressed and read “as is” by all apps- Premiere, AE, Edius, etc.
No software (except Vdub) will try to ask for anything above 8bit in avi, which is not v210. So if you have some codec which can present v210, RGB48 etc on decodign stage this is cool, but try to find a software which will try to ask for it. Even AE will always ask for RGB24.
The only way to do it is over MOV, where there are few generic 8bit+ pixel formats and many apps do use them.
I can confirm that Edius will send v210 to QT engine, so if codec happens to support it than 10bit will be kept on the export.
As far as I see your information, the reasonable solution is:
– implement codecs which accepts b64a/b48r (with QuickTime interface)
– internal data format of these codecs is RGB(A) with decreased bit depth, like 10bpc and/or 12bpc
Implementing 10bpc RGB codecs is slightly easy because I have already implemented 10bpc YUV codec. 12bpc+ variant is much more difficult.
Hmmm..
Magicyuv 10bit RGB does typical 2:1 compression and algorithm is quite basic.
I have been told that 16bit may be very tricky, but 12bit should be fairly easy.
Hmm.. After Effects and Premiere support raw v210-avi file natively (and thus YUV 4:2:2 10bit data) and reports it correctly as ‘trillions of colors’ instead of ‘millions of colors’.
But I understand that is only because they support it natively.. the moment they need to ask Windows for a codec they only support RGB? That’s a shame…
Cineform HD 4:2:2 10-bit YUV files are also supported and properly reported as 10bit or more. Is this then also because Premiere and After EFfects have native Cineform-HD-in-avi support without going through VCM / DMO?
The difficulty of 12bpc+ UtVideo exist not in its compression principal, but in its decoding algorithm. My algorithm is very ineffective for higher bit depth. I have to implement another algorithm.
Is the algorithm of MagicYUV is disclosed?
>> to Joris
Yes. AE and Pr can handle native v210 AVI but cannot exchange v210 with VCM codecs. What a shame…
Are there Cineform HD 4:2:2 10-bit YUV free trial?
CineForm 10bit in avi works fine in Premiere / AE, but apparently that is because they use a native reader than that bypasses VCM / DMO. Cineform itself includes a CineForm exporter to .avi and a CineForm exporter to .mov as a Premiere plugin. As does native V210 in .avi btw (and there is a ‘raw v210 avi’ 10bit exporter by default in Premiere).
But as Chi Mei Zewei notes, all this bypasses the VCM / DMO ‘codec’ nature of Windows, which means that an external codec like UtVideo can not deliver 10bit material, even if it decodes to V210.. since it’s a codec, Premiere and AE don’t request v210 from the codec (even if they support it natively).
The author of MagicYUV said on a forum that his 10bit builds deliver the information fine. Maybe he has colorspace converters into weird stuff like b48r (converting it into rgb but high-bit-depth RGB to retain all the 10bit-yuv information).
I’m still looking for a way to import AND export 10bit (YUV?) material into Premiere / AE while using a pure lossless encoder… and with less diskspace than raw V210 :P.
I can feed UtVideo-10bit into Premiere by using VapourSynth (it has a ‘fake-avi mounter’ which presents itself as a huge raw V210 avi file, which premiere reads and lists as ‘trillions of colors’)… but there is no way out of Premiere without using ‘near-lossless’ (cineform / dnxhd / prores) or using raw streams. If someone knows more, please point me into the direction :P.
Just want to go 10bit (or more) into Premiere and also 10bit (or more) out of it… with filesizes that are less than raw v210-avi / raw v210-mov… and pure lossless.
動画を作りたいのですが、録画をするとパソコンがおちてしまうので検索した結果、このサイトにとんだの動画作りにご協力おねがいします！
ｍ（＿）ｍ
Windows版リンク死んでる気がします。
[UtVideo] version 15.0.1 will also give virus warnings!
Another rebuild necessary?
Oh, god.
確かに VirusTotal で再スキャンさせたら出てきますね。
https://www.virustotal.com/ja/file/86a84bd3876a72f000649249b7190d768e8a836ef683646ce2ef03e5b161ed07/analysis/1421164680/
こちらはアップロード時
https://www.virustotal.com/ja/file/86a84bd3876a72f000649249b7190d768e8a836ef683646ce2ef03e5b161ed07/analysis/1420787076/
また utv_cfg.exe がアウトのようですが、調査します。
とりあえず、ビルド環境（私のメインPC）が汚染されていたら一大事だな、と思ってウイルスバスターのオンラインスキャンとカスペルスキーの体験版とで完全スキャンしてみましたが、上記の utv_cfg.exe と、それを内部に含む utvideo-15.0.1-win.exe のみが引っかかります。
ビルド環境そのものは汚染されていないようなのでとりあえずはビクビクしなくていいようですが、今のところ原因は不明です。コンパイラが変わったタイミングでもあるし、プログラムの書き方との兼ね合いで微妙なバランスでアウト判定になっているのかもしれません。
なんか解明は長引きそうなので、とりあえず utv_cfg.exe を含まないものをリリースすることにします。
今週末は PC をさわれない可能性が高く、そのタイミングでまた何かあったら困るので、週明けに。
Hi,
In order to make 10bit work on the decoding stage you have to provide b48r or b64a or r4fl conversion inside codec, as most application will try to get this pixel format from the decoder. v210 is not very well supported.
Although video decoding of 10bit-utvideo in avi seems to work in Virtualdub, it only works if I _force_ Virtualdub to read v210 (video -> color depth -> v210 input -> v210 or something else output).
But in other applications it seems your UTVideo doesn’t report itself as handling v210 output.
For instance, After Effects understands a raw v210-avi file without problems, but it doesn’t understand 10bit UTVideo?
Also, how to encode with the quicktime 10bit codec under Windows? It seems it only supports ’24bit’ or ’32 bit’ depths, while Quicktime’s raw v210 codec is listed as 48 bit.
Adobe Media Encoder now always fails with the 10bit UTVideo quicktime component. The 8 bit 422 works fine.
It seems the 10bit quicktime component is not advertised as understanding 48bit depth?
梅澤 様
WIN10ではこんなメッセージがでて
「The filename,directoryname,or volume label syntax is incorrect」
インストールが出来ないのですが・・・
対応はまだ先のことでしょうか・・・（＿ ＿）
>> to kolak
b48r, b64a and r4fl seem to be all RGB formats. Are YUV high bit depth formats not popular (especially in QuickTime) ?
I’d rather not implement RGB-YUV conversion in high bit depth codecs…
Implementing 16bpc RGB codec seems better, but its compression ratio will be quite low.
>> to Joris
VirtualDub have ability to auto-selecting decompression format. This is implemented as querying some decompression formats to decoder. But v210 is not included in these formats. That is the reason why we have to set VirtualDub to read v210 explicitly.
NLE softwares like Premiere Pro or After Effects only query RGB formats (8bit palettized RGB, 16, 24 and 32-bit RGB). UQY2 reports supporting v210 input and output but these formats are not used.
I have tested encoding with UQY2 for QT only with EDIUS Pro.
UQY2 reports *only* supporting v210 in compression and decompression.
>> OBATA さん
手元の VMware に専用に作った Windows 10 Technology Preview (x86/x64) の環境にインストールしてみましたが、インストールできないという症状は発生しませんでした。そちらでインストールできないのは直接的には Windows 10 だからというわけでは無いように思えます。
なお、Windows 10 かどうかを判定して何かするような処理は今のところ入れていません。
Hi,
QT and most apps like RGB, mainly b64a. Most of the support is done over b64a, some apps also work with r4fl.
r4fl is a 32bit float YUV 4:4:4:4.
16bit RGB loassless codec would be also great!
v210 is a specific case as this is uncompressed and read “as is” by all apps- Premiere, AE, Edius, etc.
No software (except Vdub) will try to ask for anything above 8bit in avi, which is not v210. So if you have some codec which can present v210, RGB48 etc on decodign stage this is cool, but try to find a software which will try to ask for it. Even AE will always ask for RGB24.
The only way to do it is over MOV, where there are few generic 8bit+ pixel formats and many apps do use them.
I can confirm that Edius will send v210 to QT engine, so if codec happens to support it than 10bit will be kept on the export.
hmm…
As far as I see your information, the reasonable solution is:
– implement codecs which accepts b64a/b48r (with QuickTime interface)
– internal data format of these codecs is RGB(A) with decreased bit depth, like 10bpc and/or 12bpc
Implementing 10bpc RGB codecs is slightly easy because I have already implemented 10bpc YUV codec. 12bpc+ variant is much more difficult.
For your information, estimated compression ratio of non-decreased bit depth RGB codecs (i.e. 16bpc) is around 1.0-1.2 ( see http://umezawa.dyndns.info/wordpress/?p=4422 )
Hmmm..
Magicyuv 10bit RGB does typical 2:1 compression and algorithm is quite basic.
I have been told that 16bit may be very tricky, but 12bit should be fairly easy.
Hmm.. After Effects and Premiere support raw v210-avi file natively (and thus YUV 4:2:2 10bit data) and reports it correctly as ‘trillions of colors’ instead of ‘millions of colors’.
But I understand that is only because they support it natively.. the moment they need to ask Windows for a codec they only support RGB? That’s a shame…
Cineform HD 4:2:2 10-bit YUV files are also supported and properly reported as 10bit or more. Is this then also because Premiere and After EFfects have native Cineform-HD-in-avi support without going through VCM / DMO?
>> to kolak
The difficulty of 12bpc+ UtVideo exist not in its compression principal, but in its decoding algorithm. My algorithm is very ineffective for higher bit depth. I have to implement another algorithm.
Is the algorithm of MagicYUV is disclosed?
>> to Joris
Yes. AE and Pr can handle native v210 AVI but cannot exchange v210 with VCM codecs. What a shame…
Are there Cineform HD 4:2:2 10-bit YUV free trial?
MagicYUV is not open source.
Regarding Cineform- it works fine in AE when used in MOV (assuming proper rules are added to xml rules file).
AVI won’t work at 10bit.
Old days there was a special module (as a plugin) in AE to handle Cineform AVI 8bit+ import/export, but this is not supported anymore.
8bit+ in AVI is pretty much dead!
Download:
http://shop.gopro.com/EMEA/softwareandapp/gopro-studio/GoPro-Studio.html
This enables encode to Cineform up to 422/10bit (I think).
Or you can get 15 days trial:
http://cineform.com/download-gopro-studio-premium-windows
of studio premium will all modes and features.
All right. If Cineform 10bit is not well supported by AE and Pr etc. via VCM interface, there are no new information. thanks.
No. Forget about avi. You won’t get wide support in all software out there at all. 8bit+ in AVI is pretty much non-existent.
Yes, I now think so too.
梅澤 様
ご丁寧に回答を頂き有難うございました
お手数をお掛けし申し訳なく存じます
再度検証してみましたが・・・
状況は変わらずです
原因は不明ですが・・・日を改めて
WIN10再インストールから
再チャレンジしてみましょう
有難う御座いました
CineForm 10bit in avi works fine in Premiere / AE, but apparently that is because they use a native reader than that bypasses VCM / DMO. Cineform itself includes a CineForm exporter to .avi and a CineForm exporter to .mov as a Premiere plugin. As does native V210 in .avi btw (and there is a ‘raw v210 avi’ 10bit exporter by default in Premiere).
But as Chi Mei Zewei notes, all this bypasses the VCM / DMO ‘codec’ nature of Windows, which means that an external codec like UtVideo can not deliver 10bit material, even if it decodes to V210.. since it’s a codec, Premiere and AE don’t request v210 from the codec (even if they support it natively).
The author of MagicYUV said on a forum that his 10bit builds deliver the information fine. Maybe he has colorspace converters into weird stuff like b48r (converting it into rgb but high-bit-depth RGB to retain all the 10bit-yuv information).
I’m still looking for a way to import AND export 10bit (YUV?) material into Premiere / AE while using a pure lossless encoder… and with less diskspace than raw V210 :P.
I can feed UtVideo-10bit into Premiere by using VapourSynth (it has a ‘fake-avi mounter’ which presents itself as a huge raw V210 avi file, which premiere reads and lists as ‘trillions of colors’)… but there is no way out of Premiere without using ‘near-lossless’ (cineform / dnxhd / prores) or using raw streams. If someone knows more, please point me into the direction :P.
If you want AVI than you may never get it :)
It’s way easier to do in MOV.
Don’t care what format…
Just want to go 10bit (or more) into Premiere and also 10bit (or more) out of it… with filesizes that are less than raw v210-avi / raw v210-mov… and pure lossless.
This can be done, quite easily from developing point of view.
But apparently no one is doing it. I had hopes for UtVideo, but apparently it’s more complicated than I thought.
MagicYUV claims to be doing it, but will only give it in private builds.
The only 10bit options are even raw V210 or image sequences like DPX/TIFF , or near-lossless formats like ProRes, DnxHD and CineForm..
but no real lossless compressed format apparently.
This is correct.